(Continued from Part I and Part II)
3. Think for yourself
Today's reading material is this presentation by Dr. Peter S. Fiske. It's about scientists and engineers being forced to explore non-traditional career paths due to PhD gluts. It is also about scientists and engineers being fit to succeed on all kinds of career paths.
95% of PhDs can be expected to leave Academia for good. And yet, a typical PhD+postdoc experience is basically geared towards training new faculty. Partly because you spend all this time in the academic environment. By default, that's what you are going to end up knowing best. And partly because Academia raises its own employees. It's a sensible approach to:
- train all PhD students/postdocs as potential professors;
- hire a few of the most promising, suitable and willing trainees;
- let the outside world sort out the rest.
To be sure, the world and the job market will do just that. And you might want to start thinking about it long before you get your diploma. In fact, unless your are hell-bent on becoming a professor, always keeping one foot outside the door of Academia and in the "real" world is a good idea. Just don't expect anyone on the inside to tell you that.
In short, you might want to stay off the Kool-Aid, keep exploring the opportunities outside the lab and keep your priorities straight. PI's will tend to lecture you about the importance of working really hard on your (their) research projects, coming in on weekends, "living in the lab", pushing yourself and so on. It's OK to nod and say "Amen", but don't forget: your life is your #1 project.
You have a brain that works better than most. You can figure it out.
comments for this post
I've been a student of science for over 10 years. Most of that time I worked in academic research labs. The last and the longest time – in the laboratory of Dr. 
Keep on putting this stuff out. These guys need to be exposed for the scam they are perpetuating. American kiddies should not seek a good life in science anymore. It really is a bad area to be in. A few people will make a good living, that's about it. But even then, they are receiving incredibly little compensation for their intelligence and years of training compared to an MD or even a Wall St. broker.
The rest are going to have to find some "alternative" careers later. It's hard to find an alternative career when everyone views you as a 30 year old loser who couldn't hack it in your own field!! So think now! Go to med school if you still need that sciencey feel. But better yet, if you are smart enough to go into engineering or science, go to wall st, make a lot of money, retire early and work on that PhD for fun. We let foreigners do a lot of our manufacturing why not science? Just think of it as automation. No one misses their possible career as a seamstress right? Same thing is happening to science as happened to farming, photo-development, programming, etc.
Don't be a fucking scientist, you have been warned!!
I think American kids are aware. It's already >50% foreigners in science and engineering in US and Canada, isn't it? James Watson went on about that for a while too (I posted a link, but I went to the same talk when he was at Scripps). He was like "What have you people turned the PhD program into? It's serfdom. It used to be 3 years, now it's 6. Look around, everybody is either Indian or Chinese. American kids don't want this any more. Why would they?" I'd give him a second Nobel prize just for saying stuff like that out loud.
But yeah, I'll say that if you love science – go ahead, get into a PhD program. Learn what you think you'll need, stay on the payroll, use free access to journals, come up with some ideas and plans. Then jump ship, drop out and launch a tech startup with your friends or whoever. Either that, or seriously, spend some time on Wall St. or wherever the money is, and buy yourself a freaking lab. That's what I call independent research.
Wish I was there to see that talk. But I totally agree with Watson. Science has been destroyed by the serfdom it has created. When your only choices are living under communism or living under govt soft money, it's natural to choose the latter.
wow talk about cynicism. what about science pushing the civilization forward. what about science allowing you peak into the intricacies of nature and be bewildered and amazed. what about the dedication of yourself to curiosity and wanting to learn. it's ridiculous that you all are so down on it. why don't you leave science. it won't miss you.
Good job, you have outright equated modern academia with science. In other words, a certain group of people and/or a certain way of doing something with the basic general thing being done. Another example of this would be equating slavery with agriculture. See a problem with that? The two aren't inseparable. Nobody here is attacking Science per se, or is "down" on curiosity and exploring the wonders of the universe. You are the one being ridiculous.
If anything, I started this website because I've always been (more than) into science, and I think that science is paramount to our species. What I'm down on is the mess of how Academia is set up, how resources are managed and how people are treated. It's almost like science has pushed the civilization forward in all respects except how people organize themselves to do science. And I, for one, think that's a shame. Makes sense?
Science won't miss you Andrei... there is a reserve army of graduate and postdoc labour out there (to quote Karl Marx).
Good riddance!
I was joking and hope you do not take it negatively.
3a82
Science is a wonderful thing, but it has become mostly a tool for government money for institutions. For the PIs, they have become skilled players at a glass bead game, a very complex game with little meaning. Grad students and pos-docs have become pawns, told to ignore their finances and social lives. When they realize what they've gotten into, it will be to late to change. The careers they fought so hard for were only a mirage for most. Poor rewards for so many years. They will find an industry indifferent to their intellect, disposing of them quarterly. An academia indifferrent to their sacrifices. The only way to stay in this game is through incredible denial of these realities. Andrei has simply chosen not to live in denial any longer. Beware of American academic science. If you question too much, you will end up like Andrei. If you never question, you'll just continue to sacrifice and wait in vain for your reward.
The way I see it, grad school/postdoc can be worthwhile, especially if you can kick it when it ceases to be. Good news is that you can, anytime. I don't regret getting into a PhD program, it all worked out in the end, and the whole experience served me well. Despite liking science in principle, I could never actually make myself look forward to having a career in it. That was my big dilemma for a number of years. So I went with the flow until I figured out what I could do with my life that would be perfect for me, and that was that. But yeah, the key to avoid getting played is to always play your own game and pack a BS meter any day there is a chance you might be getting career advice.
"I don’t regret getting into a PhD program, it all worked out in the end, and the whole experience served me well."
The whole experience? All five years? Not just the first semester or the first year or even the first four years that worked out well? Even the fifth year worked out well for you? How are you sure do did not waste a year of your life? I am a glad that you did not waste years, but surely it would have been nice to write a dissertation and defend to get the Ph.D. and then say "fuck it" to science because at least you have a palpable sign of accomplishment than the "whole experience".
Nope, that would have been silly. Outside science, that PhD diploma isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
At least you could call yourself Dr. or Ph.D.
:)
Add... wow... even a Ph.D. from Scripps isn't worth much... but I guess getting is the real prize since it is the signal of possessing a high level of general intelligence or conscientiousness. But if the latter the true, you should have said "fuck it" after the first semester instead of doing research for Reza.
Anyone that takes pride in calling themselves "Doctor" because they have a PhD is a moron. You will be laughed out of the room outside of academia. Putting PhD on your resume also makes you overqualified for just about anything outside of science, limiting your employment opportunities to Postdocs and whatever industry positions are left. HR doesn't want to disrespect a PhD by giving them any work outside of their field, since they may run off first chance. Since most people still reside in academia on this site (~84%), these realities have not been shown to Yusei.
Outside of science, the PhD is a big liability. Andrei will have enough trouble just trying to make up for the five years at Scripps. Adding a PhD onto it would only make that much more difficult.
Even Nature has finally had to admit that this science gig is becoming lame and will probably get worse:
http://www.nature.com/nchem/journal/v2/n5/full/nchem.631.html
Nature Chemistry 2, 337 (2010)
Fight on Andrei.
@ 3a82 Cynicism is selling something you wouldn't let your children buy into. Cynicism is when good people standby and let bad ideas prevail. Andrei pointing out the realities and reflecting on them is not cynical, it's being critical. We are told we need more scientists, that we need them so badly that we have to tax people by force to get them!! Yet society offers very few opportunities for them. You rarely see an MD working outside their field, yet there are all these scientists seeking "alternative careers". Hell, campuses are pushing PhDs into alternative careers. Kind of funny huh?
Andrei pointing out the deficiencies of scientific training at Scripps is no more wrong than pointing out the deficiencies of other institutions. Amazon has plenty of book reviews. They can be helpful, they won't prevent people from reading those books. But they can save you some money on something that may not have been worth your time.
Same thing with this blog. It could save people a lot of years of hurt, or people could ignore it, go right into a PhD program for six years, post-doc for 2-4 years, then start writing their very own reviews on their job prospects....hmm, wonder what they will look like?
if you like science do science. it's ridiculous that everyone feels there is no career in science. A PhD is useless? Are you kidding me? That's extremely disrespectful and has no support behind it whatsoever. The whole point of getting the PhD is to work hard, learn a lot, and publish good results. The whole point of doing science, is to be able to do science. Working hard and obtaining good results in your science will no doubt lead you to a successful career in science, the best rise to the top. Those that weren't don't. It has nothing to do with the state of science in America. This site is pure cynicism. To not see that...you're fooling yourself. To go through school, and have the opportunity to do something you love IS the reward. Complaining about it is not productive, and if you hate it that much, then it wasn't for you. It has nothing to do with the sorry state of science in America, it has to do with those who simply don't excel or have the passion for science that they thought they did.
Umm, sure, there are careers in science, and by all means, successful you can one day become. Especially if you don't let things like family or life get too much in the way, and if "success" does not have to include being well paid for your work. Like hell, I've already written two posts here on how to be successful in academia. Who is this "everyone" person you keep talking about?
Yes, outside of science, a PhD diploma in science is useless. It means no disrespect, it just means you can't use it for anything. Like, you know, the word "use"? It's just a piece of paper. Or wait, is McDonald's offering discounts to PhD holders now? If that's the case, I'm sorry, my bad, I didn't know. )) And don't even try to ask for respect for being a PhD outside the ivory tower land. You are going to look like a pompous loser. That's the kind of behavior that perpetuates the "all scientists are crazy" rep in the world.
You are a perfect poster child for my next post here, which is going to be about graduate student/postdoc motivation. Whoever brainwashed you into the state of mind you're in, they have done an awesome job.
I only argued that from the perspective of a fifth year grad student that pursuing a PhD might be worth it if you at least have a decent lab notebooks and some publications (so you could base your thesis is some research) because your five years are already a sunk cost that was already defrayed and cannot be refunded. Of course, for a grad student in the first semester who did not invest a half-decade of his life, then from his perspective pursuing a PhD would not be worth it unless they have certitude of getting a good career in academia.
Again, a PhD from Scripps isn't worth much.... just wow!
Hey, you should do a career guide for chemists like Greenspun's:
http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/
What about Joyce (from Scripps)? Is he a good slave driver, too, profiting from the labor of his serfs (graduate students and postdocs)?
I wish him well...
Gerald Joyce was on my exam/thesis committee at Scripps actually (along with Peter Schultz and Floyd Romesberg). But I don't know whether he is a good slave driver or a bad slave driver. )) I have zero doubt he is good at getting the most out of his people though, whatever methods he uses. His academic success depends on it like anybody else's. He is pretty successful already, but he wasn't resting on his laurels last time I checked.
Thanks for tell me about Gerald Joyce since I heard about him before. From meeting him, is he the type of person who would say cynical things like "Welcome to the world of bullshit. There is much you can learn here"? As far as I could tell, he has a genius intellect and a perspicacious mind (I'd guess three and half sigma), not merely a person who could ace exams with conscientiousness and one-sigma general intelligence. He seems to have a passionate interest in his field of research (molecular evolution with RNA catalysts), and perhaps his enthusiasm is a contagious motivator for his grad students and post-docs.
BTW, what do you think about the song?
Here is a good song for graduate students ("Last Train" by Knotlap -- the Japanese version of the song was the opening for the second season of Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D's):
I'll finally escape from my saturated life today
I don't know what is going on today
But somehow I feel that my answer isn't here
Though I don't know how my life will end,
I never wanna be a slave
'Cause there is always the chance to change
I guess it's up to you
I'm trying to be a better person
I will get on the train
I don't wanna become a slave
I will live for myself
I'm trying to be another me
'Cause I won't lose my life
My life will succeed
I'll reach my goal
I try to smile but I can't remember how
I don't know
please tell me, how'd I become so Jaded?
Sometimes I feel like I might be dead soon
But I know that it gave me something to believe
Though I don't know how my life will end
I never wanna be a slave
'Cause there is always the chance to change
I guess it's up to you
I'm trying to be a better person
I will get on the train
I don't wanna become a slave
I will live for myself
I'm trying to be another me
'Cause I won't lose my life
My life will succeed
I'll reach my goal
I'm waiting for my dawn
I'm dreaming of freedom
Nobody Knows my worries
No need to understand me
I wanna get this small freedom
I break away my worries
It's time to say goodbye
I'm not afraid of you
I need to walk away
'Cause I don't wanna be a liar
If I cannot live my life,
I am as good as dead
I'm trying to be a better person
I will get on the train
I don't wanna become a slave
I will live for myself
I'm trying to be another me
'Cause I won't lose my life
My life will succeed I'll reach my goal
My new story
My life is just about to start
I'm trying to be a better person
I will get on the train
I don't wanna become a slave
I will live for myself
I'm trying to be another me
'Cause I won't lose my life
My life will succeed
I'll reach my goal
http://www.janime.info/5DS/songs/op02.html (Lyrics)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8ezagyIyl8 (The Link)